>> NOW, WITH THE U. S. MIDTERMS LESS THAN TWO MONTHS AWAY, DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE AMPING THE RHETORIC AS THEY CAMPAIGN IN WHAT WILL BE CRUCIAL ELECTIONS, OF COURSE.

IT COMES AT A TIME WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S APPROVAL RATINGS ARE AT THEIR LOWEST, AND THE PARTISAN RIVALRY FEELS STARKER THAN EVER.

UTAH GOVERNOR SPENCER COX HAS BEEN CALLING FOR AN END TO POLITICAL POLARIZATION IN AMERICA FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, AND IT'S TAKEN ON AN EVEN MORE RESONANCE FOLLOWING THE ASSASSINATION OF CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST CHARLIE KIRK LAST YEAR.

HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO TALK ABOUT THE KEY TO FOSTERING POLITICAL HARMONY IN AMERICA.

>> THANK YOU.

AND GOVERNOR SPENCER COX, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU HAVE THIS NEW BOOK CALLED "OFF-RAMP. "

AND THE SUBTITLE IS HOTTEST HOW TO TO BE A PEACE MAKER IN AN AMT OF CONTEMPT.

YOU INFUSE IT WITH A LOT OF POWER.

THAT'S AT THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM.

EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.

>> LOTS OF EXPERTS HAVE TALKED ABOUT WHAT CONTEMPT AND WHAT IT ISN'T.

WE THINK OF HATE AS KIND OF THE WORST THING THAT COULD BE HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY.

AND I THINK THERE IS EVEN A LEVEL BEYOND HATE, BECAUSE AT LEAST WHEN WE'RE ARGUING OR DISAGREEING PASSIONATELY WITH EACH OTHER, WE'RE HAVING SOME SORT OF INTERACTION.

CONTEMPT IS --THINKS THAT YOUR OPPONENT IS BENEATH YOU, THAT THEY'RE NOT WORTH ENGAGING IN.

THEY'RE UNWORTHY OF OUR EVEN OUR DISAGREEMENT.

I TALK ABOUT A FAMOUS PSYCHOLOGIST WHO WORKS WITH MARRIED COUPLES AND SAYS THAT WHEN HE SEES A COUPLE LIKE ROLLING THEIR EYES AT THEIR SPOUSE, HE KNOWS THAT MARRIAGE IS IN TROUBLE.

AND THERE IS A LOT OF THAT HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY TODAY.

AND I THINK THIS MARRIAGE --THIS AMERICAN MARRIAGE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IS NOT VERY HEALTHY RIGHT NOW.

>> WAIT, IT'S GONE WAY BEYOND EYE ROLLING.

I MEAN, THIS IS REALLY HATEFUL, SPITEFUL CONTEMPT THAT PEOPLE FEEL.

WHAT CAUSES THAT TYPE OF CONTEMPT?

>> WELL, THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT WE KNOW IS CAUSING THAT.

I TRULY BELIEVE THAT SOCIAL MEDIA HAS BECOME A CANCER IN OUR SOCIETY TODAY.

THE WAY WE LOOK AT EACH OTHER.

THE CONFLICT ENTREPRENEURS THAT EXIST OUT THERE, THAT MAKE MONEY OFF OF DIVIDING US, AND WE'VE GOTTEN SO POLARIZED AND ADOPTED THE WRONG TRIBES.

I'VE RESEARCHED A LOT ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH COMMUNITY, AND WE USED TO HAVE VERY STRONG COMMUNITIES IN THIS COUNTRY GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO ALEXIS de TOCQUEVILLE IN THE 1880 s. WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

WE'RE LONIER THAN ANY TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

WE HAVE FEWER FRIENDS.

SO WE'RE DESPERATELY SEEKING THAT BELONGING, AND WE'RE FINDING IT MORE OFTEN IN POLITICS THAN IN RELIGION OR VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATIONS OR ROTARY CLUBS.

AND POLITICS IS AN UNHEALTHY TRIBE.

AND SO IF SOMEBODY IS NOT A PART OF OUR TRIBE, THEN WE, AGAIN, WE TEAR THEM DOWN.

WE LOOK DOWN AT THEM.

WE THINK THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER.

AND THAT'S A PRETTY DANGEROUS FORMULA FOR OUR COUNTRY.

>> I KNOW THAT JONATHAN HAIGHT HAS BEEN PART OF THIS BOOK.

AND I KNOW HIS PHILOSOPHY, YOU'VE EMBRACED IT.

YOU'VE TRIED TO GET OFF OF SOCIAL MEDIA.

TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND HOW PROBLEMATIC YOU THINK SOCIAL MEDIA IS.

>> YEAH, SO LOOK, UTAH WAS THE FIRST STATE IN THE NATION TO REALLY TAKE ON THE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES.

WE LED OUT.

OF COURSE THERE IS A BIG SETTLEMENT RECENTLY WITH META BECAUSE OF SOME OF THAT WORK AS OTHER STATES HAVE COME ALONG.

I APPRECIATE JONATHAN HIGHT WHO WROTE THE FORWARD TO THE BOOK AND THE GREAT WORK HE IS DOING THERE.

I PERSONALLY I HAVE TO ADMIT I WAS ADDICTED TO TWITTER AND X. SPENDING WAY TOO MUCH TIME OWN SOCIAL MEDIA.

DECEMBER I MADE AN IMPORTANT DECISION THAT I NEEDED TO GET OFF AND I NEEDED TO UNPLUG A LITTLE MORE.

AND IT WAS TRULY REMARKABLE WHAT HAPPENED.

SO MUCH OF THE ANGER THAT I FELT EVERY DAY LEFT.

I HAD MORE TIME TO FOCUS.

ACTUALLY MORE TIME TO WRITE THIS BOOK, THAT WAS PART OF IT, TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY SIT DOWN AND ENGAGE, TO THINK DEEPLY.

BUT MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT, MORE TIME TO SPEND WITH MY FAMILY.

I WAS PRESENT MORE THAN WHEN WE WERE TOGETHER AT FAMILY MEALS OR GET-TOGETHERS.

AND ULTIMATELY, I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S WHAT OUR COUNTRY NEEDS.

THE DIVISIVENESS THAT WE'RE SEEING OUT THERE IS BEING DRIVEN IN LARGE PART BY THESE ALGORITHMS THAT ARE DESIGNED TO REALLY ATTACK OUR BRAINS, TO OVERTAKE OUR AGENCY, AND TO DRIVE US TO HATE ONE ANOTHER.

AND THEY'VE GOTTEN REALLY GOOD AT IT.

AND I DON'T PRETEND THAT A GOVERNOR OR A PRESIDENT IS GOING THE FIX THIS.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE ALL OF US TAKING A STEP BACK AND STARTING TO CARE MORE ABOUT OUR NEIGHBORS THAN WE DO ABOUT WINNING AN ONLINE ARGUMENT.

>> YOU SAY HOW WONDERFUL IT WAS WHEN YOU GOT OFF SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT I READ THE BOOK.

FOR A FEW DAYS YOU WERE LIKE AN ADDICT TRYING TO RECOVER.

IS THIS THING ADDICTIVE?

AND IS THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM?

>> ABSOLUTELY IT'S ADDICTIVE, BY DESIGN.

THEY'VE GOT SOME OF THE BEST RESEARCHERS, THE BEST PSYCHOLOGISTS IN THE WORLD WHO UNDERSTAND HOW TO GET US ADDICTED, HOW TO KEEP US SCROLLING.

ALL OF THESE NEW INVENTIONS THAT THEY COME UP WITH ARE ALL DESIGNED TO KEEP US ON THEIR PRODUCT LONGER.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THE ALGORITHM KNOWS HOW LONG WE SPEND LOOKING AT A PICTURE, LOOKING AT A POST.

IT FEEDS US MORE OF WHAT WE WANT, AND YES, WE GET ADDICTED.

I WAS ADDICTED.

WHEN I GOT OFF, JUST LIKE A RAT TRYING TO GET FENTANYL WATER, I'M PUSHING THAT BUTTON 40 TIMES A DAY, AND THERE IS NO BUTTON LEFT IN MY PHONE.

I WOULD PULL IT OUT INSTINCT ILY, AND THERE WAS NOTHING THERE.

THAT'S WHEN I REALLY KNEW I HAD A PROBLEM.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS WEEK IS THE FIRST ANNIVERSARY OF THE KILLING OF CHARLIE KIRK, AND THAT'S WHEN YOU BECAME A BIG NATIONAL FIGURE BECAUSE YOU EXPRESS THE SORROW AND HOW GRUESOME THIS WAS, BUT ALSO TRIED TO HEAL, TRIED TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE CAME TOGETHER, TRIED IN SOME WAYS YOU CALLED FOR PEACEMAKING.

IN THIS BOOK, YOU TALK ABOUT HOW PEOPLE REACTED AGAINST THAT, AND YOU FOUND IT EXASPERATING.

EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

>> WELL, LET ME JUST SAY AGAIN, THIS WAS A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY THAT HAPPENED IN MY STATE.

THE HIGHEST PROFILE POLITICAL ASSASSINATION IN 50 YEARS.

AND IT HAPPENED HERE.

AND WE WERE DEVASTATED BY THAT.

AND OF COURSE MY FIRST THOUGHT IS WITH ERICA AND THE KIDS, HIS PARENTS, HIS FAMILY.

JUST A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE TRAGEDY.

AND BY AND LARGE, THE RESPONSE WAS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE, THAT THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.

THIS IS AWFUL.

I HEARD FROM DEMOCRATIC LEADERS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO REACHED OUT TO EXPRESS THEIR SYMPATHY AND THEIR REGRET AT WHAT HAD HAPPENED AND HOW TERRIBLE THIS IS.

BUT THEN I OPENED SOCIAL MEDIA, AND I SAW --AND AGAIN, THESE ARE MINORITY, BUT A GROWING SADLY MINORITY IN OUR COUNTRY, SOME OF WHOM NOT ONLY WERE THEY NOT SAD, BUT SOME OF WHOM WERE CELEBRATING THE TRAGEDY.

AND THEN SOME WHO WERE MAD AT ME FOR TRYING TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURE AND MAD AT OTHERS WHO WERE TRYING TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURE.

AND SO THAT'S --I HAD ALREADY STARTED WRITING THIS BOOK, BUT THAT REALLY HELPED TO PUSH ME TO FINISH IT.

WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

WE CAN'T SOLVE OUR DEBATES BY SHOOTING EACH OTHER.

WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLES OF DEBATE, DISAGREEMENT, PASSIONATE ARGUING IS FINE.

WE SHOULDN'T COMPROMISE OUR PRINCIPLES, BUT WE ALSO SHOULD BE BUILDING COALITIONS THE WAY THE FOUNDERS INTENDED TO SOLVE OUR BIGGEST PROBLEMS.

>> YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THE STRONGEST SUPPORTER AS PRESIDENT TRUMP, EVEN AS A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR.

BUT AFTER HE WAS SHOT, YOU DECIDED TO ENDORSE HIM, AND YOU KIND OF ASKED HIM A FAVOR.

YOU SAID OKAY, I WANT TO ENDORSE YOU, BUT HERE'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE.

EXPLAIN WHAT THAT FAVOR WAS, AND MAYBE HOW DISAPPOINTED YOU WERE WHEN IT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE IT CAME TO FRUITION.

>> WELL, LOOK, THE PRESIDENT AND I HAD A LONG HISTORY.

I DID NOT SUPPORT HIM.

I HADN'T VOTED FOR HIM.

AND AT THAT POINT WHEN HE -- WHEN THERE WAS AN ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION ON HIS LIFE, I JUST FELT THIS OVERWHELMING NEED THAT I NEEDED TO BE A PEACEMAKER, AND I NEEDED TO REPAIR THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER, KNOWING THAT WE WOULD LIKELY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK TOGETHER OVER THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.

AND SO THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I DID.

I WROTE HIM A LETTER, REACHING OUT TO HIM, ASKING IF HE WOULD CONSIDER TAKING ON THIS ROLE.

I FELT HE HAD A REALLY UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY IN THE WAKE OF THAT ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION ON HIS LIFE TO HELP BEAUTIFY THE COUNTRY AND BRING US TOGETHER.

NOW, IF HE WERE HERE WITH YOU, HE WOULD TELL YOU --IN FACT, HE SAID THIS AFTER THE DEATH OF CHARLIE KIRK.

HE SAID "CHARLIE SAID WE SHOULD FORGIVE OUR ENEMIES, BUT I CAN'T DO THAT.

I HATE MY ENEMIES. "

THAT WAS HIS APPROACH.

HE HAS A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH.

HE DECIDED THAT WAS NOT THE DIRECTION THAT HE WANTED TO GO.

AND YET WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO WORK VERY CLOSELY TOGETHER ON IMPORTANT ISSUES.

AND I HAVE TO SAY AFTER THE --AFTER CHARLIE'S DEATH, I MEAN, HE REACHED OUT TO ME, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE --THE PEOPLE THAT WANTED HIM DEAD, HIS CONCERNS ABOUT THE FUTURE, AND HE WAS SUPPORTIVE OF ME THROUGHOUT THAT PROCESS AND THE DECISIONS THAT WE WERE MAKING TO HELP TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURE A BIT.

SO WHILE WE SEE THE WORLD DIFFERENT LIVE ON THIS ISSUE, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE BOOK IS CAN WE HAVE A RELATIONSHIP.

AND REALLY FOCUS --AS MUCH AS THE NATIONAL PROBLEMS CONCERN ME, THIS --I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT AND WRITING ABOUT HOW TO FOCUS ON OUR INDIVIDUAL RELATIONSHIPS WITHIN OUR FAMILIES, WITHIN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, WHEN OUR FRIEND ZONE.

TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE LOST FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS TO POLITICS, AND WE HAVE TO GET BACK.

WE HAVE TO WIN THEM BACK.

AND THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS THAN JUST POLITICS.

AND I'VE HAD TO PRACTICE THAT.

WITH BOTH PRESIDENT TRUMP AND PRESIDENT BIDEN, FIGURING OUT HOW TO WORK CLOSELY WITH PEOPLE I DISAGREE WITH.

>> BUT YOU SAY THAT POLARIZATION IS THE DEFINING ISSUE OF OUR TIME AND IS REALLY THE BIGGEST DANGER.

AND YOU'VE JUST SAID THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP FUNDAMENTALLY DISAGREES WITH YOU.

HE SAYS OF HIS ENEMIES, "I CAN'T TRY TO WORK WITH THEM.

I HAVE CONTEMPT --TO USE YOUR WORD, HATRED FOR THEM.

THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM AND PEOPLE SUPPORT HIM WITH HIS VIEW OF THE WORLD THAT WAY?

>> SO, LOOK, PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN ANY ONE DECISION.

AND CERTAINLY THAT'S TRUE OF MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

I BELIEVE THAT'S TRUE OF ME ALSO.

YES, LOOK, I THINK THAT POLITICAL LEADERS SHOULD DO BETTER.

ONE OF THE REASONS I TOOK ON THIS PROJECT WORKING WITH THE NATIONAL GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION.

I WISH EVERY GOVERNOR AND EVERY PRESIDENT AND EVERY MAYOR AND EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS WOULD HELP TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURE.

BY THE WAY, I'M NOT GREAT AT THIS.

THE INCENTIVES --THE INCENTIVES RIGHT NOW IN OUR COUNTRY ARE TOWARDS CONTEMPT AND HATE AND ANGER.

THE ALGORITHMS, RIGHT, YOU GET MORE PLAY ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

YOU GET MORE PLAY ON TRADITIONAL MEDIA.

IF YOU'RE OUTLANDISH AND YOU SAY WILD THINGS AND YOU'RE LOUD AND PROVOCATIVE.

SO EVERYTHING WOULD PUSH US TOWARDS THAT.

AND YET THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR OUR COUNTRY.

AND SO I NEED THIS LESSON AS MUCH AS ANYBODY.

DO I WISH WE HAD PRESIDENTS THAT WERE TRYING TO LOWER THE TEMPERATURE?

YEAH, 100%.

BUT I DON'T THINK, AGAIN, THAT THIS PROBLEM IS GOING TO BE SOLVED OR THAT WE CAN JUST BLAME IT ON POLITICAL LEADERS.

EVERY TIME WE POST ON FACEBOOK OR SOCIAL MEDIA, EVERY TIME WE TREAT SOMEONE ELSE AS OUR ENEMY INSTEAD OF OUR FELLOW AMERICAN, THEN WE'RE ALSO PART OF THE PROBLEM.

AND THIS -- THIS IS AN ATTEMPT FROM ME TO LOOK INSIDE OF ME AND TO TRY TO HOLD MYSELF ACCOUNTABLE AS WELL.

>> WHEN YOU WERE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AT ONE POINT, YOU MADE AN AD WITH YOUR OPPONENT.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT AND WHY.

>> YEAH.

SO THIS WAS IN 2020.

IN UTAH, WE RUN ON THE PRESIDENTIAL CYCLE.

SO IF YOU THINK BACK TO 2020, WHAT WAS HAPPENING DURING THAT TIME, OF COURSE COVID, GEORGE FLOYD, A TERRIBLE SUMMER, TEARING US APART AS A COUNTRY.

AND A FRIEND OF MINE SAID HEY, ISN'T THERE SOMETHING YOU CAN DO?

I THOUGHT WHAT CAN I DO?

I'M JUST RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR OF UTAH.

BUT THAT QUESTION REALLY HAUNTED ME.

AND I TELL THIS STORY ABOUT I JUST DECIDED THAT I NEED TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING.

SO I CALLED MY OPPONENT, A DEMOCRAT.

HIS NAME IS CHRIS PETERSEN, A WONDERFUL HUMAN BEING.

WE DISAGREE ON JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING, BUT WE BOTH AGREED THAT WE CARE ABOUT OUR COUNTRY, CARE ABOUT OUR STATE, AND THAT WE CAN DISAGREE WITHOUT HATING EACH OTHER.

SO I MADE THIS CRAZY ASK.

I SAID HEY, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO FILM AN AD TOGETHER IN WHICH WE SAY JUST THAT, THAT WE'RE -- I'M RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

CHRIS SAYS I'M RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

I HOPE YOU VOTE FOR ME, BUT WE DISAGREE ON SO MANY THINGS, BUT WE BOTH AGREE THAT WE CAN DISAGREE WITHOUT HATING EACH OTHER, THAT OUR COUNTRY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EITHER OF US, THAT WE CARE ABOUT THE STATE OF UTAH, THAT WE'LL ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION, WHATEVER THEY ARE.

AND TO HIS CREDIT, HE AGREED TO DO IT.

WE FILMED THE AD.

WE PUT IT OUT.

IT WENT VIRAL.

MILLIONS OF HITS WITHIN 24 HOURS.

AND IT JUST SHOWED ME, AGAIN, THAT THIS NATION IS HUNGRY FOR SOMETHING BETTER.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT, THE NATION IS HUNGRY FOR THIS.

WHY ISN'T THERE A WAY, OR IS THERE A WAY THAT THERE COULD BE A THIRD MOVEMENT, LET ME CALL IT, OR SOMETHING WHERE THE 70% OF AMERICANS WHO ARE HUNGRY FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS SAY, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO A DIFFERENT APPROACH.

>> YEAH, WELL, LOOK, I THINK IF EVER THERE WAS A TIME, IT MIGHT BE RIPE FOR IT NOW.

IT'S REALLY HARD THE WAY OUR SYSTEM IS SET UP, IT'S KIND OF SET UP FOR THIS BINARY TWO PARTIES.

BUT THERE ARE INCENTIVES WITHIN THE PARTIES THAT STILL EXIST FOR THIS.

WE DO SEE IT IN ELECTIONS STILL.

IT HAPPENS.

PEOPLE GET TIRED OF ONE SIDE AND THEY'RE GOING THE OTHER SIDE.

ONE OF THE PROBLEMS I ARGUE IS THAT NO PARTY HAS LOST BAD ENOUGH IN THE LAST TEN YEARS TO LEARN ANY LESSONS.

SO WE JUST KEEP THINKING, WELL, THE COUNTRY WILL GET ANGRY WITH WHOEVER IS IN CHARGE AND WE'LL GET OUR TURN NEXT TIME WITHOUT ACTUALLY EVER DOING ANYTHING DIFFERENT.

BUT WE DO SEE POCKETS OF THIS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO PROVE IS THAT THIS TYPE OF WORK, THIS TYPE OF EFFORT, THIS TYPE OF DEPOLARIZATION WORK ACTUALLY WOULDN'T HURT YOU RUNNING FOR OFFICE, AND IT COULD HELP YOU.

SO WE REACHED OUT THE STANFORD.

AND THEY HAD A DEPOLARIZATION LAB THERE WHERE THEY STUDY INTERVENTIONS AND DIFFERENT RESEARCHERS WHO ARE WORKING ON THIS TYPE OF DEPOLARIZATION WORK.

AND WE ASKED THEM TO STUDY --ACTUALLY, THEY STUDIED MY AD WE EVEN KNEW ABOUT IT.

AND THEN WE FILMED SOME MORE ADS WITH OTHER GOVERNORS JUST LIKE THIS, A REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT TOGETHER.

AND WHAT THEY FOUND WAS AFTER SURVEYING OF THOUSANDS OF CITIZENS WHO WATCHED THESE VIDEOS WAS NOT ONLY DID NOT HURT EITHER GOVERNOR OR EITHER POLITICIAN, IT ACTUALLY HELPED THEM.

THE PEOPLE WHO WATCHED THEM WERE MORE FAVORABLE.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO PROVE USING RESEARCH THAT THIS IS GOOD POLITICS.

SO EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DO IT JUST FOR THE GOOD OF OUR COUNTRY, IF YOU'RE VERY MACHIAVELLIAN AND YOU JUST WANT TO WIN THE NEXT ELECTION, THEN THIS CAN ACTUALLY HELP YOU WIN THE INTERSECTION ELECTION.

AND I HOPE THAT THAT WILL INSPIRE.

WE HAVE MANY GOVERNORS WHO HAVE STEPPED UP TO DO, OVER 20 NOW WHO ARE WORKING WITH NONPROFIT TO HELP PRODUCE THESE ADS, THAT MORE AND MORE PEOPLE WILL BE INSPIRED TO SAY HEY, I CAN RUN FOR OFFICE IF I CAN DO IT THIS WAY.

I DON'T WANT TO TEAR SOMEONE DOWN.

BUT IF WE CAN RUN A RESPECTFUL CAMPAIGN WITH NO NEGATIVE ADS AND WIN, THAT'S SOMETHING WORTH TRYING.

>> YEAH, SCIENTISTS HAVE WHAT THEY CALL THE THEORY OF EVERYTHING, THE WAY YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO UNITE RELATIVITY THEORY, QUANTUM THEORY, ALL THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE.

AND YOU HAVE A BIT OF THAT WHICH IS A THEORY OF EVERYTHING FOR OUR SOCIETY, SOCIAL SCIENCE.

IT'S HOW IT ALL FITS TOGETHER.

TELL US THAT.

>> YES.

SO MY THEORY OF EVERYTHING IN SOCIAL SCIENCES, POLARIZATION, CERTAINLY.

INCARCERATION RATES, DRUG ADDICTIONS, THE GAMBLING ADDICTIONS, ALL OF IT, ALL OF THE SOCIAL PROBLEMS, HOMELESSNESS THAT WE'RE FACING IN OUR COUNTRY, I BELIEVE THE SOLUTION TO ALL OF THOSE IS COMMUNITY.

THAT'S THE THEORY OF EVERYTHING.

BUILDING STRONG COMMUNITIES.

WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT.

I MENTIONED ALL THE WAY BACK TO ALEXIS de TOCQUEVILLE.

WHEN HE CAME HERE IN THE 1830s, WE HAD THESE ASSOCIATIONS THAT WERE SOLVING PROBLEMS.

MANY OF THEM RELIGIOUS, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.

AND THE ANSWER TO OUR BIGGEST PROBLEMS EXIST IN GETTING TO KNOW YOUR NEIGHBOR, STEPPING UP WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS.

I'M VERY FORTUNATE TO LIVE IN THE STATE THAT LEADS THE NATION IN WHAT WE CALL SOCIAL CAPITAL, AND THAT SOCIAL CAPITAL IS EXACTLY THAT, THE WAY WE RESPOND AS A COMMUNITY TO HELP EACH OTHER, TO LIFT EACH OTHER.

WE LEAD THE NATION IN RATES OF UPWARD MOBILITY.

WHICH MEANS IF YOU'RE BORN IN POVERTY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO STAY IN POVERTY.

WE LEAD THE NATION IN VOLUNTEERISM AND CHARITABLE GIVING.

AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS LEAD TO MORE POSITIVE OUTCOMES.

AND WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO THAT.

AND I'M SO GRATEFUL FOR PEOPLE WHO DO GIVE BACK, WHO CARE ABOUT THEIR COMMUNITIES, WHO SACRIFICE FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

THOSE VIRTUES THAT WERE SO IMPORTANT TO BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AND THOMAS JEFFERSON AND OTHERS THAT WE'VE GOTTEN AWAY FROM FOR SO LONG, WE NEED A RETURN TO VIRTUE IN THIS COUNTRY, A RETURN TO CARING ABOUT OTHER IMPEACHMENT.

>> GOVERNOR SPENCER COX, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE.