GEOFF BENNETT: Well, as we have reported, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s nomination to lead the Department of Health and Human Services cleared the Senate Finance Committee today, senators voting along party lines.

It now heads to the full Senate for a final vote.

Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin sits on that committee, and I spoke with him earlier today.

Thanks for being with us.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Thanks for having me on.

GEOFF BENNETT: So the committee vote to advance RFK Jr.'s nomination followed from what I understand was a fairly intense pressure campaign from Trump administration officials and Mr. Kennedy himself.

Your colleague Senator Bill Cassidy, who happens to be a physician, said that his yes-vote came with conditions to ensure the public's continued access to vaccines.

Take a listen.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): To this end, Mr. Kennedy and the administration committed that he and I would have an unprecedentedly close collaborative working relationship if he is confirmed.

We will meet or speak multiple times a month.

This collaboration will allow us to work well together and therefore to be more effective.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, that raises the question, if securing confirmation demands such unprecedented concessions, is RFK Jr. truly the right choice to begin with?

SEN. RON JOHNSON: Well, first of all, I don't think those are particularly major concessions on the part of RFK Jr.

He wants to follow the science.

He is not anti-vax.

I'm certainly not anti-vax.

We want to make sure that the vaccines that are on the childhood schedule are as safe as possible, recognizing that nothing is 100 percent safe, and that they're effective.

Certainly, we want to prevent childhood disease to the extent we can, but we also have to have an open mind, I mean, that there are -- the reality is, there are vaccine injuries.

They acknowledge that fact when they passed the Childhood Vaccine Safety Act back in 1986.

Injury, vaccine injuries are just unavoidable.

It happens.

We need to take care of those individuals, which is why we set up a compensation fund.

It's completely indisputable that the COVID injection caused injuries.

So, again, all these things have to be explored.

People have to have an open mind on it, but nobody wants to take anybody's vaccine away because we -- vaccines are miracles if they can prevent disease without causing too much undue harm.

GEOFF BENNETT: What actual ability would the Senate have to oversee or rein in HHS if that's what's needed beyond what has been done in the past?

SEN. RON JOHNSON: Well, again, all I'm looking for -- all I have ever looked for is total transparency.

Follow the science.

And, unfortunately, I believe science has been corrupted.

You have had capture of our federal agencies by corporate interests, whether it's big pharma or big food processing or big agriculture.

I think that's also pretty much indisputable.

So what we need is, we need total transparency.

We need to uncorrupt science.

When you pay for science, you get the result you want.

And that's not in the public's best interest.

So, for my standpoint, it starts with making sure that science has integrity, that peer review actually means something, that we're also willing to take a look at observational studies and other forms of evidence, but that we have an open mind toward these things.

That's all I'm looking for.

That's all I think that RFK Jr. is looking for.

GEOFF BENNETT: Big picture, how do you and other Republican lawmakers view your role in this moment as you lead what is a co-equal branch of government?

And I ask the question because, as we sit here and speak, Elon Musk is unilaterally dismantling the foreign aid agency USAID.

He now has access to sensitive government payment systems, with no public concern, no public constraint from Republicans in Congress, whom the American people actually elected to run this government.

Why not?

SEN. RON JOHNSON: Well, first of all, we have people in these agencies that believe they're completely unaccountable to the American public.

They have stiff-armed me as I have written multiple requests for information for multiple agencies.

Secretary of State Rubio basically made the same claim against USAID.

So you already have bureaucrats run amuck who don't believe they're accountable.

What President Trump is doing is, he's fulfilling a promise.

He's trying to get the bottom of this, of the waste, fraud and abuse of the federal government that is right now completely out of control.

So I appreciate Elon Musk's endeavors.

He's a genius in terms of squeezing out all his money inefficiencies from the businesses he's run.

And he's like the perfect guy putting types of people who have access to computer models and A.I.

to quickly diagnose what inefficiencies are occurring in these agencies.

And let's face it.

USAID is just the tip of the iceberg.

(CROSSTALK) SEN. RON JOHNSON: It's just the tip of the iceberg.

GEOFF BENNETT: But if there's a debate about USAID's mission or funding, why not have that debate?

There is a process for that, a legal process to have that debate.

SEN. RON JOHNSON: We will have that debate.

First, we need the information.

And you can't get the information when you have these bureaucrats who are protecting the information and not turning it over to Congress or over to the elected president.

It's undeniable that you had bureaucrats in the first Trump term that undermined and sabotaged his administration.

He's trying not to let that happen again.

I applaud his swift and decisive actions.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, here's a thought experiment that occurs to me.

If, during the Biden administration, George Soros had access to sensitive government payment systems and unilaterally dismantled an independent government agency, Republicans in Congress would be apoplectic.

The indignation would be palpable.

Why is that not happening now?

Is it because Donald Trump is president?

SEN. RON JOHNSON: Well, we weren't particularly happy when President Biden weaponized the Department of Justice, the FBI, engaged in lawfare, persecuted his political opponents.

So, again, that's the problem, is big government is unaccountable.

It's infiltrated by radical leftists who have weaponized government against conservatives.

So, again, we're trying to get control of the situation.

President Trump experienced, again, the sabotage undermining his administration in the first term.

He's trying to prevent that from happening in the second term.

I completely understand why he's trying to do these things.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the time that remains, I want to ask you about tariffs, because you have said that you share the market concerns about President Trump's tariff plan.

What are your concerns?

SEN. RON JOHNSON: Well, first of all, there's multiple uses for tariffs.

And I think President Trump has demonstrated a unique ability to use tariffs to gain concessions from, for example, Mexico and Canada to try and help us secure the border, try and stop the flow of fentanyl.

I think Peter Navarro said this isn't a trade war.

This is a war on drugs.

I don't disagree with that.

And what I would be concerned about is a generalized tariff long term, creating long-term dislocation in terms of supply chains.

I want free and fair trade.

Another use for tariffs is to discipline people who are not engaging in fair trade.

So this is a complex issue.

I have concerns, but I also give President Trump the benefit of the doubt in terms of using tariffs to negotiate a better position for U.S., for the U.S. and for its citizens.

GEOFF BENNETT: Is that how you think he's using them, for leverage and as a negotiating tactic?

I ask the question because Canada is Wisconsin's single biggest trading partner.

Wisconsin has a lot on the line here.

SEN. RON JOHNSON: Well, I think it's obvious right now.

I mean, he used it effectively in his first term to make sure that Mexico cooperated with remain-in-Mexico and we were able to secure the border.

We have now got a pledge for both Canada and Mexico to move personnel into place to help us secure the border and stop the flow of drugs.

So I think the proof is in the pudding.

Seems to be working pretty well right now.

GEOFF BENNETT: Senator Ron Johnson, always good to see you.

Thanks for coming on the program.

Appreciate it.

SEN. RON JOHNSON: Have a great day.