(gentle music) Funding for Utah Insight is made possible by: Thank You.

On this edition of Utah Insight, we dive into recycling's dirty truth.

-Recycling's not for everybody.

-Why some experts say you may want to rethink the way you recycle, - It's the right thing to do, but if you really don't want to do it, then please, don't contaminate the recyclables.

- See what's being done to make the process more affordable, and learn a few new creative strategies that you can adopt to improve environmental sustainability.

(lighthearted music) - Thanks for joining us here on "Utah Insight."

I'm your host, Liz Adeola.

WalletHub recently compared all 50 states to find out which ones are the greenest and Utah did not nab the top spot.

In fact, Vermont took that spot.

But Utah is inching its way up the list, gradually becoming a more environmentally friendly state.

Take a look at this.

This year we ranked 26th, which is quite the improvement from where we landed in 2019.

We were 39th then.

And Utah was also close to cracking the top 20 states for eco-friendly behaviors.

Joining us to answer your questions and share what we can do to maybe crack that top 10 on the list, we have David Rawson, the owner of Recycled Earth.

Joining us from the National Waste Management Conference in Las Vegas, Evan Tyrrell, who is the district manager for Canyonlands Solid Waste Authority out of Moab.

And Debbie Lyons, the director of sustainability at Salt Lake City Corporation.

Glad to have you all on the show.

Thank you so much for being here.

We got quite a few questions and responses to this topic from our audience on Facebook, and we're gonna get to those in a minute.

But first I want to start with that ranking.

I always take it with a bit of salt, a grain of salt, actually.

And I want to dive into that.

According to WalletHub, Utah's not the worst state, but there's certainly something that we could be doing better.

David, what are your thoughts on that?

- Well, I would say that there's always room for improvement and I think we are doing a better job.

I've seen more cities start to participate.

- [Liz] And Debbie, what are your thoughts?

- Well, I would say that, you know, starting with recycling and reducing your waste is probably the number one thing that people can do to reduce their environmental footprint and improve that ranking.

So recycling is a great, great step in the right direction.

- Absolutely.

And the recycling operations director for waste management had quite a few strong words to say when it comes to recycling, especially for people who are trying to get in it.

He basically said, "Please do it right, or don't do it at all."

Listen.

- Recycling is not for everybody.

And that's one of the things we say is, it's the right thing to do, but if you really don't want to do it, then please don't contaminate the recyclables, just drop that into the trash.

It's gonna wind up in the same landfill.

It's just gonna take a much shorter course and it's not gonna have the potential to do the damage.

And it's not gonna have the cost associated with it.

- Let's unpack Mark's statement a little more.

Evan, this sounds a lot like wish cycling.

And can you go into that and explain what that is and how it impacts the recycling process?

- Yeah, so in my opinion, recycling has become increasingly complicated, which in my opinion is due to new types of packaging and marketing.

But when it comes to wish cycling, a lot of the state has single stream where everything can be thrown into one container essentially.

And that's kind of lead to behavior where people think that, "Okay, this is probably recyclable.

So I'll throw it in that container."

However, downstream when it goes to these facilities that sort the materials, it creates a lot of complications and conveyors and machines run down.

And contamination is a big problem in this type of recycling system.

- Is there anything that can be done while people are putting their items into the recycling bin to take care of that?

Like maybe more descriptions?

'Cause a lot of times we only have two options.

We have the blue bin or the trash.

- Yes, so, labeling has become a problem with the Mobius recycling symbol.

A lot of plastics do have a recycle symbol, although they are not necessarily recyclable.

One thing we are trying to do in Moab rural Utah, is to provide consistent messaging, consistent types of educational materials, so people understand what is truly recyclable and what is not.

- David, let's talk about how often people get it right.

How often do people recycle the right materials and do so without contaminating it?

- Yeah, I would say about 60% of the time.

- [Liz] That's really positive.

- Yeah, well, it's better than nothing.

It's not perfect, but we could, we can do better.

- What are the goals?

What amount are you trying to get to?

- We need to be under a 15% contamination and to really be an affordable program, sustainable program.

- [Liz] And Debbie, you'd like to add on to that.

- Yeah, so I would say, you know, in Salt Lake City where I live and work.

You know, where recycling programs are mature, I think that people are generally recycling right, our contamination rate is around 15%, which is that ideal percentage.

And most of that is, you know, things that shouldn't be recycled or that might've been contaminated by food or other things.

So I would say generally in mature programs where there's been a lot of messaging, a lot of education and awareness, that people are generally doing it right.

And if you just go back to the basics, like, decades ago, we've been recycling the same things for a long time.

Newspaper, cardboard, aluminum cans, and steel cans.

And if you just stick to those, those are absolutely the best things to be recycling right now.

And then there's some fluctuation in the plastic markets, where sometimes there's a good market and sometimes not.

So that's where things really get confusing as we have this new packaging.

And then we also, you know, people get confused about chip bags and little things that if you're confused, just don't put it in the recycling bin.

- Because I think so many people want to recycle everything.

They're like, "Please, I want to try to recycle this."

But everything's not recyclable.

Right, David?

- That's correct.

That's correct.

We have to keep it simple.

Our MRFs or our processing plants can only handle what they can handle.

And when we give them everything else, it's just a bother.

And it's indicative.

- Well, on social media we asked, what do you think could be done to get more people in Utah to recycle?

And several people responded who were clearly over it, unfortunately.

Check out their full statements on the screen.

One repeating thread was pretty much, what's the use?

In part, Beverly had this to say, "The items we recycle end up in the landfill anyway, or oceans anyway."

Jeremy said, "We found out they just take it to the dump.

So we stopped."

Steve said, "Most of it ends up in the landfill anyway."

Like I said, a repeating language, repeating thoughts from these people.

And one viewer actually gave me homework, told me to watch the Frontline episode called "Plastic Wars."

I watched it and I felt so sad afterwards.

When I was a kid, I memorized that song, recycle, reduce, reuse, close the loop.

And it just seemed like it's getting harder and harder to close that loop.

What would you say David, to Beverly, Steve, Jeremy and anyone else who feels like this is a losing battle?

- We can't give up on our program, it's better than direct landfill.

It is a step in the right direction.

We've had misunderstanding, but it can be better.

- And Evan, what are your thoughts on this?

- Well, I would say that the majority of recyclables do in fact get recycled, with the exception of things that are thrown in the bin or container that are not truly recyclable.

In the United States, within the past five to 10 years prior to China Sword, where China essentially stopped accepting our recyclable commodities.

At this point in time, the United States is kind of getting up to speed where we can handle our own material.

And that's one thing we're trying to do in Moab, is to make sure that all of our materials are sent to domestic markets nearby in the region in Utah if we can.

- And Debbie, I feel like people heard, "Oh, China's not taking our stuff anymore, now we can't recycle plastic."

And I feel like people threw up their hands and said, "Okay, well, it's just gonna go in the landfill.

What can we do?"

What are your thoughts?

- Well, I'll just reiterate that, you know, 85% of the material in Salt Lake City is actually ending up in other products and getting recycled.

Yes, China, when they did come down with their restrictions, it did throw a wrench into things for us, but we see the local markets picking up and local recycling companies doubling down on investing in our local markets.

And again, if we go back to just the basics of paper and plastic bottles and cans, those have always been recycled.

And the only time it doesn't get recycled is if it's been contaminated by liquids or food or other things that are not recyclable.

- Are we in a time now where people should be paying attention to trying to reduce their consumption of items and things like that?

Should people while they're at the grocery store be looking to see if what they're purchasing is recyclable?

David, what are your thoughts?

- That would be my final point almost, is that as a consumer, if we don't purchase recycled products or containers that can be recycled, we're not encouraging the proper recycling and our producers won't produce it.

- Wow.

Debbie, do you have thoughts on that?

- Yeah, I would add that, you know, just reducing the amount of disposable items that we purchase is the first step that we ought to be thinking about.

Using you know, durable napkins, durable plates, and cups and things like that.

And avoiding paper towels and other products and single-serving beverage containers.

So as much as we can avoid, we don't have to be thinking about these systems, are they working or are they not for recycling.

So reducing waste is absolutely the first step that people ought to be thinking about when they're confused about recycling, - I feel like I have to retrain myself, because in my mind, I thought pretty much all plastics were recy - I was guilty.

I was one of those people who thought all plastics were recycled.

And when they said that the little containers that you get the strawberry in are not good.

Yeah, you're shaking your head.

Like, "No, you can't recycle those."

And so what should people be looking out for at their grocery store?

Should they be like flipping things over and looking at it?

You're nodding David, you're saying "Yes, exactly."

- Education, understanding, keeping it simple.

- [Liz] Evan, what are your thoughts?

- Yeah, I would agree with keeping it simple.

Back to the basics.

You know, a lot of things people will say are, you know, bottles, jars and jugs are recyclable.

If it doesn't have a threaded lid, then don't put it in the bin.

And ultimately if in doubt, throw it out is kind of the motto that that has been discussed in numerous occasions and events.

And one other big thing they're discussing at this conference is the concept known as, extended producer responsibility.

And that's essentially holding the manufacturers and the people that design the packaging and make the packaging, making them ultimately responsible for supporting the recyclability or the end use of those products.

- Yeah.

'Cause what can consumers do?

Once it's already at the store, you got to get your strawberries.

They don't sell 'em singly where you can just pick them out.

You gotta get your strawberries and your produce and things like that.

So I really like that they're turning the attention towards the people that are producing these items to help with this process and help close that loop so to speak.

Well, from master recyclers to those who audit the process, RaeAnn Christensen introduces us to a few of the people who are playing a positive role in Utah's sustainability journey.

- [Zell] I'm just trying to take more responsibility in my life.

And some of the best ways that I figured that out is how am I consuming?

What waste am I producing?

How can I eliminate waste?

How can I live more responsibly?

- [Narrator] Zell Schaal is on a journey of sustainable living.

She is hoping on this path to reduce her environmental footprint.

- Whenever I leave the house, it's not only do I have my phone, do I have my wallet?

It's do I have my bag?

Do I have a water bottle?

Am I going anywhere with food involved?

Do I have a to go container?

- [Narrator] In almost every aspect of her life, you'll see Zell trying to figure out how to eliminate waste by recycling, reducing.

- I've completely eliminated paper towels.

- [Narrator] Reusing and rethinking.

- I shop different.

I buy things in different containers.

- [Narrator] And it all comes back full circle.

- So I save all of my organic food waste that can be composted.

This is just in the kitchen, and when it fills up, then I take it to my compost bin outside.

I turn my compost or I can give food waste to my chickens.

Eventually my compost goes into my garden.

I eat my plants and it's just a happy cycle.

- [Narrator] Helping other people become better recyclers also involves hitting the road.

Ashley Bailey is the education team leader in Salt Lake City sustainability department.

- This is that soft plastic that I'm talking about that we wouldn't take.

- [Narrator] She helps residents know what is and isn't excepted.

- Got empty aluminum cans.

That's gonna be great.

These hard bottles, looks good.

Our first approach is to flyer the can.

We have various flyers that would say what is accepted and was what isn't accepted.

And then we also have tags, which is a piece of paper where I can check off what was in there.

And then the driver coming by will see that, and they won't pick up that can.

And the hope is that the resident will clean that out.

And then the next week we can dump the can for them.

(machine whirling) - [Narrator] Recyclable materials end up here at the Waste Management material recovery facility.

- This is where all the trucks come in and dump their materials.

- [Narrator] Walt Mathiason is the facility manager.

- About 20% of what we get is actually not recyclable.

So this is where we have to try to get the material off the line.

- [Narrator] Walt says with this new facility and better technology, they have a lower contamination rate.

That means less waste go into the landfill.

But he says it's much easier for them when residents know what belongs in the recycle bin.

His advice to recyclers, keep it simple.

- Keep 'em loose, keep them plain.

And cardboard, paper, bottles, plastic bottles, cans, and aluminum.

If you don't know whether or not it's recyclable, throw it out.

- [Zell] Sometimes it's easy to get down on yourself, and even I do.

We think that our actions don't matter.

- [Narrator] Zell says it's the small changes that have really empowered her.

- [Zell] You tackle one change at a time, and once you've solidified that change, you can move on to the next one and the next one and the next one.

- [Narrator] She says, the most important thing is that you just do something.

- [Zell] Half of living sustainably it's your mindset.

You know, is taking the action and knowing that it matters, knowing that what you do counts in the bigger picture.

Taking responsibility for our lives.

(upbeat music) - My trunk looks like Zell's with a lot of reusable bags in the back, just ready to go for whenever I go to the grocery store.

Well, Brett Garner has a two-part question.

He posted this on Facebook.

He wants to know, what can we do to stop using un-recyclable material and how can we persuade policy makers to adopt less wasteful standards in packaging and bags?

And Evan, you know, you've told us, they're already talking about this at the conference that you're at.

But what can people at home do to make a difference?

What's your response?

- Well, as I mentioned, recycling has become rather complicated with new packaging and advertising methods.

Basically, if it's not recyclable, don't buy it.

And I know that it can be a very difficult thing to do, but it's basically kind of reduction at the source and the point of sale is probably the first priority.

- Absolutely.

And Debbie, what are some of the tips that you have for people at home to reduce their waste?

- Yeah, so I'm just going along with that.

You know, sometimes you buy things where you don't need to take home some of the extra packaging.

Like, if you buy shoes or clothing or things like that, you don't need to take the boxes or the hangers or the things that come with it.

So, I often will leave those at the store and ask them to recycle them.

- Oh, wow.

I saw like a huge, I think it was an area where they had just hanger after hanger, after hanger.

And they're like, "This is not, you know, recyclable.

We can't do anything with this."

And I'm thinking about the pandemic as well and how much people have been ordering things online during the pandemic.

And I mean, you order one small little thing and it comes in a big package with a lot of bubble wrap and a lot of paper inside of it.

David, how has the pandemic impacted recycling?

- It has definitely increased packaging.

And, but most of the packaging from Amazon or eBay, it is cardboard and is recyclable.

I've seen a lot lately of the shredded cardboard that is inside the cardboard boxes as packaging, which is really nice instead of bubble wrapper, so.

- It seems like people, you know, what we're hearing over and over again is that people need to shift their mindset to help create a more sustainable Utah and planet.

Where should people start, Debbie?

- Again, it's with that waste reduction.

And another thing I wanted to bring up is, 40% of the food that you buy at the store ends up wasted.

Because we often buy food that we think that we might, you know, that we should be eating.

The cauliflower, the broccoli, the brussel sprouts, and then we never end up preparing it and cooking it or we don't have time.

So, really thinking about the food part of it is important.

And planning out your meals in advance and being realistic about how much you will eat and how much you'll spend time on preparing food, because that is a huge component of the waste stream.

And it is very difficult to recycle or put it back into compost or other beneficial uses.

So I would start with the food waste.

And like was pointed out in the video, just start with one thing.

So if there is something where you feel like you look in the garbage can or the recycling bin and say, "Oh, I have a lot of this.

Maybe I ought to just tackle that problem."

Start with the paper towels, start with the grocery bags.

Something simple, and then just keep going from there.

- And Evan, where do you think people should start?

- Yeah, this is a difficult question, I suppose.

But I think eliminating the use of single use products would be, that was something that was already previously mentioned.

And it is trying to reduce what you buy that is not recyclable, but ultimately things that just don't go in the trash can.

So again, a difficult question to kind of answer in that broad perspective.

- Are there any policies that you think would be beneficial that you hope that our state leaders will approve and pass and get instated here in Utah?

Debbie?

- Yeah, I think the extended producer responsibility model is a good national model to look to.

And I think there's a lot of willingness and collaboration with industry to address that.

Nobody wants, you know, no brand wants their bottle or can on the beach in the documentary.

So I think there's a lot of willingness and addressing both the single use items, but also the recyclability of those.

So that's a good national model and local state model that could be looked at to increase producer responsibility for the waste that's produced.

- And also, plastic bags as well.

In the documentary, they said a lot of people don't think that that impacts them, but you see those bags blowing down the street behind a truck, or, you know what I mean.

And so there are states like California that have a ban where people have to pay for the bags.

Is that something that we could see happening here in Utah?

- I think that that kind of policy would make sense on a statewide level, to put all of the retailers and all of the consumers and everyone on a level playing field.

Definitely we've seen in other states that it encourages people to think twice about taking that bag.

So it, you know, we've seen that it does have an impact on decreasing the use of those bags.

- And David your company started during a really rough time.

How have things been going now that the economy it seems like is finally rebounding during the pandemic?

- It's going better.

Markets are coming back and which helps sustain our program.

I would add a little bit to that previous discussion in the fact that it's really the up and coming generation that we really need to put the money into.

We need to educate so that they know.

It's really fun to hear that children correct their parents in what they put in the can.

And so I think that's where the money needs to be spent, is in the education of our children.

- Absolutely.

As we start to come to a close, I'd like each of you to share your final thoughts and takeaways that you want people at home to remember after this show.

And things that they can do to help make Utah a more sustainable place for future generations.

Starting with you, David.

- Well, it is just what we purchase.

If we purchase non-recyclable products, they're gonna continue to be produced.

If we purchase products that are recyclable, then they will be produced.

And that's the way we can affect it with our dollar.

And I think that's where it really starts.

- Evan?

- Yes, I would absolutely agree with the past two panelists, what they've set out during the past two questions.

And you know, Utah is unique in the fact that there's so much land and representing a rural town in Utah, it makes things much more difficult.

Transportation costs make a big play and things.

But, ultimately just following those philosophies, the reduce, reuse, and then recycle.

Recycling should kind of be the third thing prior to everything else, so.

- [David] Hmm!

- [Liz] And Debbie.

- Yeah, I'll just reiterate as much as you can do at home, whether it's mixing your own cleaners and reusing bottles for your cleaning products or reducing your plastic bags or paper towels or other single use items.

Supporting the thrift markets and the local reuse markets that are around.

And then finally, recycling right.

Avoid the wishful recycling.

And if you have confusion, don't put it in the blue bin, put it in the trash.

But still just go back to the basics of, you know, papers and bottles and cans.

- Is it expensive to change the way you shop and your lifestyle so that you're recycling and helping to close that loop even more?

David, what are your thoughts on that?

- Well, I think it can be.

And I think we're an economy that we really expect things to be less expensive.

But we have to make a choice.

And that's where our personal responsibility comes into recycling.

If we're willing to pay a little bit more for our compostable versus a non-compostable and a product that can be recycled.

We got to put our dollar where, what they say.

So.

- Absolutely.

And what are your thoughts about large companies starting to use more recycling materials?

You know, places like Starbucks.

I looked on the cup and I accidentally put it in the microwave and almost caused a fire because they say you're not supposed to put it in the microwave.

But what do you think about large companies that are now using more material that can be recycled?

Debbie?

- Yeah, I think it's great.

Again, that is that upward push on manufacturers of products to really not only produce that 100% recyclable item, but also incorporate that recycled content in their packaging.

So that is absolutely, we have to have that in market for those recycling facilities that are sorting everything to be able to feed that material back into products.

- Well, thank you all for being here.

I really do appreciate you joining us for this topic.

And I think people, I know I have learned a lot and I hope the viewers have learned a lot as well.

Coming up next week on "Utah Insight," we're asking your thoughts on human cause of wildfires and accountability.

Join the conversation, using the methods that you see on your screen.

And you might hear your comments on next week's show.

Thank you so much for watching "Utah Insight."

We'll see you next week.

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