(upbeat music) - [Ad Guest] Funding for "Utah Insight" is made possible by viewers like you, thank you.

- [Liz] Next on "Utah insight", the cost of housing is soaring in Utah and thousands need help to keep a roof over their head.

- Well, my fear, honestly, is that rents are gonna continue to climb and wages are gonna stay stagnant.

And so, (sighs) it is terrifying.

- [Liz] In this episode, we're exploring the issue of the growing number of evictions in our state, plus sharing new options you and your loved ones have for rental assistance.

(upbeat music) Thanks for joining us here on "Utah Insight".

I'm your host, Liz Adeola.

the United States Department of Justice issued a call-to-action during the COVID-19 pandemic to address yet another public emergency, the looming housing and eviction crisis.

Just take a look at what the Utah Bar Foundation found.

More than 56,000 eviction cases were filed with Utah courts from 2013 to 2020, with more than 80% of evictions occurring in zip codes where most of the residents are people of color.

Utah has some of the toughest eviction laws in the nation, being one of 12 states that allows landlords to give renters a three day notice before filing an eviction for nonpayment of rent.

Utah is among three states that combined that notice period with the availability of trouble damages for landlords in residential eviction cases, which allows the court to triple the amount of damages awarded to the landlord.

Only in Utah, it's not really discretionary for a judge, in this state trouble damages are mandatory, especially if the lessee does not respond to the courts.

We have quite a bit to unpack here, including, is Utah the lease renter friendly state in the nation?

Joining us to answer that question we have Heather Lester, who is the Landlord-Tenant Mediation Program Coordinator with Utah Community Action.

Dr. Joél Arvizo-Zavala, who is a researcher with Resilient Education Consulting.

And Julie Rosier, who is the Community Services Program Manager and Circle's Coordinator with the Southeastern Utah Association of Local Governments.

Thank you all for being here today and for joining us on this program.

Let's dive into it with you, Heather, what do you think about those numbers and do you feel like Utah is the lease friendly state for renters?

- I think lease friendly is a harsh term.

I think it's complicated as far as the rents and how it escalates.

Evictions do move very quickly, it is still a civil matter, but at the same time there is a tight timeframe.

And then if there's not the access to understanding how to overcome that, it is pretty detrimental when there is no response or there is no action, or there is no remedy, even within that three days.

You mentioned payment related issues and then there's, of course, nuisance related issues.

And I think, depending on if it's three business days versus three calendar days, it's still a pretty critical timeframe that makes folks struggle to get some sort of an answer and/or some sort of compliance.

- Dr. Arvizo-Zavala, what are your thoughts on this?

- For me, the biggest issue is the inequity associated with evictions, the imbalance that exists between landlords and tenants.

When we look at the data regarding the state of Utah, we know that there are inequities regarding racial-ethnic disparities.

We know that there are unclear processes and procedures that make it difficult for tenants to navigate, to understand.

As a result of that, there's also concerns regarding language, language ability, language access, ability to understand legal language, yet alone in English as opposed to other languages- - Yeah, is it true that a lot of the leases are only written in English here in Utah?

- Yes, the vast majority of leases are in English.

- Wow, wow.

And, I mean, that says a lot about how the inequity that's there for a community that's growing and changing here in Utah, that those leases are only in English.

Is there anything that people can do to request a lease in a different language?

- Absolutely.

In recent years, I think it was this year, perhaps last year, legislation was passed that allowed for greater discretion for leases and other potentially leases, but definitely state related documents to be translated into other languages.

And that's an important first step, in many ways Utah has been incredibly friendly and has worked collaboratively with communities who speak languages, in addition to English or other than English.

So, I definitely think it's a good step.

I think really what it comes down to is people taking the personal responsibility to be equitable and to make sure that what they produce, especially in written form, is accessible to everyone.

- Absolutely.

And, Julie, you work with communities and price, what are you seeing in your area?

- So, we actually work with Carbon, Emery, Grand and San Juan Counties.

- [Liz] Mm-hmm (affirmative).

- And just like both of you guys have mentioned, we do see there's a lot of struggles with individuals.

We have heard before from some of our Hispanic population that there has been a lack of understanding in the lease, because it was written in English and that was a struggle.

And right now we're just seeing a huge increase of, I mean, evictions due to various reasons, which I'm sure we'll talk about here shortly.

(Julie clears throat) (Liz clears throat) - Another thing that really stood out to me is the really low number of people who appear in court with representation.

Dr. Arvizo-Zavala, you were a consultant on the Utah Bar Foundation report that found that only 3.3% of Utah tenants have representation in these cases.

What do you think about that?

- It is sobering at best and problematic at worst.

We need well trained lawyers to help everyone involved in core processes to navigate those situations, to have access to knowledge, to even translate the legalese, so to speak, into more friendly, accessible language, regardless of a person's primary language if it's something in addition to English.

It can be difficult for many folks who are native English speakers to be able to understand documents related to court proceedings and, et cetera.

And as far as representation is concerned it's difficult, because in some ways representation can help folks navigate court systems, but that's why other nonprofit organizations in Utah exist, to do that work as well.

And simultaneously, if the lawyer who's representing the defendant isn't necessarily as skilled as they need to be to help the tenant navigate the court proceedings, that can cause difficulties as well.

That's another issue that I think is present in not only Utah but many states is individuals, lawyers, who know how to understand the incredibly complex court proceedings around evictions, 'cause they are very complex.

- Yeah, and a lot of times those cases can be long and they can be expensive, very expensive for people who are already struggling.

And for, a lot of times, the plaintiff's, I read in the research that they rarely wind up getting the amount that they're searching for at the end of the day.

Heather, what does this say, why don't we see more people seeking out mediation instead of taking it to the court?

- Well, to be honest with you, there has been a really big influx, I've particularly been in disposition with this agency doing this work for about five, five+ years.

It's changed, it's definitely changed within that short period of time, and it's not just due to COVID.

Really, there's definite, like was stated, there's a direct need for acknowledgeable folks, able folks, to go in and help people that are in crisis.

But the fact of mediation, it doesn't have to be a legal representation, so to speak, prior to, so we always talk about upstream versus downstream and trying to catch, and I say catch lightly, but catch the pre-filing situations.

What can we do to help remedy the housing instability crisis?

And so mediation does have a voice at the table.

We've got a lot of great relationships and we are present in a lot of situations, but we represent not as legal representation but we represent as a neutral, which actually does kind of do the same but different.

We're allowed to go to the table and restate, so to speak, or maybe reframe on the crisis.

There usually is some sort of remedy unless the landlord-tenant relationship is severed, and at that time we have those difficult conversations with both sides.

So, mediation does work with tenants by request and also landlords by request, property managers, owners, associations, whomever.

And so we're able to have that conversation somewhat related to representation, but we're able to resolve a lot of things just by communication skills.

And I think mediation is definitely tracking in order to help not fill the gap for representation, because there are some very good pro bono folks out there, volunteers always step to the table and try to become as knowledgeable as possible, but mediation does definitely have a standing point now to at least be able to have a voice, even if it's not the best voice for both sides, sometimes it just is what it is.

- Hmm, well, we asked our viewers to weigh in on this issue on "PBS Utah" social media pages and here's a little bit of what they had to say.

Ron fish said, "To not evict is theft.

The tenant signs a contract, agrees to pay for use of the property, et cetera.

When they don't pay they trash the place to require reparations in the thousands.

Landlords must raise their rents because of taxation, don't blame the landlord blame the state and local taxing authorities for requiring rising rent prices."

While Adrian Swensen posted the following, "I work with people being evicted every day and they have almost no rights.

This is a pro landlord state and the legislature just keeps digging in.

It really is simple to follow the money and see how much money is being donated and lining the pockets of our elected officials.

Developers are coming in from all over the country to take advantage of the laws in Utah and our elected officials are sitting back and letting this happen.

Meanwhile, the population that is being pushed out of housing is growing daily."

And while there were some strong opinions on this one on our Facebook page, have to remind people to be kind to one another as they chat about this, we don't have any mediators who can help out with that as well.

But what are your thoughts on that?

One thing that was kind of repeating was that we do have elected officials that also have businesses that kind of cross over into this world, and do you think that that is a plus or is that an issue that they shouldn't be crossing the paths like that?

What are your thoughts, Heather?

- And you're starting with me, great.

- Sorry, (laughs).

- Well, the thing is, I really stand in the middle and I know that is kind of a play on words as far as mediation goes but I see a lot of things from the landlord's perspective as well.

And I think that's one thing that's great to have at the table.

I don't know, I mean, I can't obviously agree or disagree with lining pockets, legislatures this, developers that.

Not that those things don't occur but I think the rental market has always been, and I'm speaking prior to COVID 'cause I'm afforded that opportunity to have been in this position prior to.

And so rents are not usually a long-term solution for families, and so whether you have a 12 month lease or by some rationale have a 24 month lease, it's still going to cycle, it's still going to generate potentially not resigning the leases, lease increases.

Nobody signs a lease with the intent of having a crisis, and so within those crisis they're very long lease agreements, they're legally binding contracts.

So, the polarizing, it's very hard topic, a lot of times people get excessively passionate.

I'm passionate about what I do, I love it, but it's really not one or the other it's a lot of in between, everybody's housing crisis is really unique.

I've done this this long and I've not heard similar situations per family, I've seen trends but speaking to the changes, it might be a legislative move.

It might be working through COVID crises and inflation rates, and rental lease terminations.

There's a lot to unpack, like you mentioned, it really just comes down to having the spectrum of looking at both sides, and finding something equitable for all parties.

- Julie, what are your thoughts, is it a conflict of interest?

- You know, I echo a lot what Heather says.

I think there's a lot of different solutions, problems, I'm not sure if I can speak on, is it equitable?

But one thing I did wanna highlight on is that being in a very rural region in Utah, I also think that education on this is very important because as we speak to a lot of individuals and families who might be in the eviction process, or they might be going to get evicted, to let them know, "Hey, there is legal aid, there are some solutions, there's some things that we could be proactive about and talk to you about."

And I think it's just trying to get the word out there, as well, and educate them on the different resources that are available.

- Yes, and let them know that it's not going to put them at a greater hardship seeking out those solutions as well, because so many people think, "I'm already struggling and I don't have anything else that I can pay or give out to get help for this."

Well, thank you so much for your comments.

As we mentioned, the COVID-19 pandemic had a big impact on the housing situation here in Utah.

Utah Insight's RaeAnn Christensen shows us how one woman took the economic hardship she faced, and is now helping others who are in similar situations.

(keyboard keys clacking) - [Shauna] So, I was a corporate recruiter that required a lot of traveling.

- [RaeAnn] The corporate world is what Shauna Manchester has known for more than a decade, with it great benefits and making more than $30 an hour.

But like many people when the COVID-19 pandemic hit, her world turned upside down.

- They decided to eliminate the entire department, and that was that.

(grunts) (finger snapping) Just like that.

- [RaeAnn] Shauna was out of a job.

- I just kept applying, applying, applying, and just doing what I could to get back out there.

- [RaeAnn] Her persistence paid off, she landed a role as a housing advocate for Net Gain Property management in Cedar City.

The position, a new one.

- 'Cause rent rent's due by the fifth.

- [RaeAnn] Created to help in vulnerable communities and those who were struggling with poverty.

- I wasn't even qualified for this job when I applied for it.

I was like, "Oh, okay."

Click, and he called me for an interview, and that was that.

I almost didn't apply for it, but I was like, "Why not?"

- [RaeAnn] Despite having found a new career, Shauna says she was still struggling financially.

Her new job opened her eyes to resources she could benefit from, such as the COVID-19 Rent Relief Program.

- I mean, we've all been there in a situation where if you're having to make a decision to pay your rent or buy groceries, you have to swallow that down and understand this program is here for a reason.

- [RaeAnn] According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the COVID-19 pandemic has triggered one of the worst job crises since the great depression.

(people speaking faintly) (phone buttons chiming) Derek Morton is the owner and principal broker of Net Gain.

- With the increase of rental prices and housing in general, that's had a huge negative impact on our tenants, as you see the pain and additional struggles to be able to make ends meet.

That's one of the biggest things with attainable housing right now is, if they lose that housing it's not gonna get any easier for 'em.

- [RaeAnn] Something Shauna is familiar with and uses it to help other people.

- She's been able to take that time, understand what's going on, connect them to the resources, and just been able to connect with them as a person.

- I had two ladies living in their car.

She was sleeping in her car, and her other sister, they were just in a really bad situation.

They come in here, boom, we're able to get them funding through Care & Share and they're off the street.

(fingers snapping) But I know that feeling of being unsettled so that, to me, at the end of the day, no matter what the crazy is that we're going through, helping people get off the street is the best thing ever.

- [RaeAnn] In Cedar City for "Utah Insight", I'm RaeAnn Christensen.

(cars humming) - We have more viewer feedback from our Facebook page.

Jared Preece says he's faced an eviction in Utah and he had this to say, "So far we are noticing that any landlord be a property owner and its entire management system is willing and ready to accept state and federal funds, but nearly at the moment they're accepted the resident may be considered a nuisance by those management and not accepted to at least extend a lease."

Heather, what advice can you share for someone who feels like emergency rent relief was given on their behalf but they're still being kicked out or denied a lease renewal?

- There's so many things to say about that but I'm sure, especially everybody's smiling but the main thing is because, and this was prior to COVID regardless of rent relief or other grants-based organizations that had grant funding prior, it solves the housing crisis, which is the ask.

And so, at times there's been rent relief, there's been grant funding that's paid forward due to maybe a crisis, a COVID crisis or otherwise, that resolves the current crisis in the instance that landlord's still deems them a nuisance or whether there is an actual nuisance maybe committed by the tenant or tenants, that doesn't change the game, it's a whole different notice.

And so it's really hard to say, "Hey, you took my rent money that I was able to acquire by some grant program, but you can't evict me now."

And that's a hard conversation to have with tenants that are in crisis, because regardless of what it is that's still a new notice.

So, I mean, mediation is very successful when it comes into explaining whether that landlord ever changed the tone, or the tenant changed the tone, that maybe was severing the relationship to begin with.

So, I hate to go back to the simple answer but it really is communication.

Communication with advocacy, activist conversation, and just reaching out and talking to that landlord and documenting.

I know that it's gonna sound like a broken record but with the tenant education aspect, we definitely train with this because one crisis does sometimes turn into two, and we have to educate in order to make people communicate effectively.

And every communication needs to absolutely, trying not to talk with my hands but needs to absolutely be documented, document all the things, because then that will provide a path towards understanding what crisis is may be coming as well.

So, document, communicate and then cooperate with whatever we happen to work out, for sure.

- I have to say, feel free, talk with your hands.

Just don't knock the mug over, it's fine.

- [Heather] We'll see.

- Did anyone else wanna add on to that, add on to people who feel like it's not fair, they've signed up for these programs but still feel like they're gonna end up on the street.

- I've got to add a little bit to that.

I think around the fairness piece, fairness is difficult.

As a researcher it's hard to measure what's fair, what isn't fair.

What we really should be asking, though, is going back to Heather's recommendations regarding clear communication and conversations.

There has to be conversations around what the motivations are for both tenants and landlords.

I am a former renter myself and I feel very lucky that I had landlords and/or property management folks who were able to work with me when I was in grad school.

That can be a difficult process, and so there were definitely times where I was worried about how I'm gonna pay rent.

And with that being said, the communication piece definitely helped things.

What really helped me, though, and what I've seen help other clients is being willing to be courageous before entering in a lease and saying, "What if I experience financial hardship?

What is gonna be your response to that?

Do you have support systems in place to help me with that?"

If you are having trouble understanding the lease, "Are you gonna give me time?

Do you have a history of giving time to other renters that you've worked with in situations like this?"

And sometimes folks are concerned about having that type of conversation 'cause not only is it direct but folks worry, and rightfully so, about, "Is this gonna be a red flag?

Am I essentially telling my property manager that I'm a risk?"

And at the end of the day that's not the issue the issue is, "Are we gonna place ourselves at risk because we're not willing to have those difficult conversations?"

So, that's key, I think (indistinct).

- Julie, did you wanna add onto that?

- Yeah, I was just going to say, I agree with both too.

And I also think on the landlord side is, when they have a tenant and they're told, "Hey, I'm applying for this program and it might take some time for you to receive my payment."

We've spoken to so many landlords who don't understand the pathway to that, they don't have a clear idea of what's gonna happen, or the program.

So, I think even just talking with the landlords and educating them on, "This is the program, this is how the process works."

That's made a huge difference in our region as well.

Because sometimes, too, landlords are told, "It'll be coming, my rent will be coming, I'm getting assistance," and then sometimes it takes a while.

So, by setting up those clear communication lines, and that's for both parties though, as well, I think that's some of the most helpful, the best benefit right there.

- This conversation really has flown by and I'm getting a wrap already in my ear, and I don't want it to end.

But, Heather, you had some thoughts that you wanted to add.

- Just to summarize up, I think, your basic question was, can they still get evicted or is there still risk for folks to be evicted?

And I think there's always a risk, and that's a hard comment for people to hear when they're renters, 'cause they just want a stable home, they want a stable environment for their families.

But just understanding that, reading the lease, understanding what you're signing, and then in crisis the biggest thing we see daily, like multiple times a day, is get ahead of the crisis.

If you know, you didn't just barely find out that maybe you're gonna struggle, there's been struggles, you've been struggling for six plus months.

Get ahead of it, and the earlier you can communicate the less it will sever the relationship.

And tenants do have rights, but you just have to get ahead of it instead of chasing it.

It's so much easier.

- Are there any eviction diversion programs here that can help out with that?

I saw one incredible example of that in Louisville, Kentucky, do we have anything like that here in Utah?

- Well, mediation actually does do weekly trainings on tenant education, how to read leases, how to understand the different eviction notices, giving tons of resources, pretty much every agency gives resources on how to access justice.

There's a self-help center within the court that provides documents and forms, there's a lot of different places to go, but getting that information is kind of vital; and especially multiple languages and having access points.

So, I mean, aside from, with mediation we're... And I say mediation a lot because that's my passion, but just understanding we're now statewide as a mediation program as of January, and so we're working through all the different cap networks to try and provide as much as we can on the education, but different demographics actually have different unique sets of circumstances.

So, the games don't change, though, the notices are the same, the court notices are the same timeframe.

So, I just think anybody that can call 211, that can call any community action partnership or basically any advocacy-type of situation that may have funding.

Rent relief is also a good resource to give same information on where to access and how to access, and the timeframe that it takes to resolve.

- Thank you so much for being here and thank you for sharing all these resources.

I know that we helped someone who is watching today, and if a person that you know needs these resources, we've placed links to all the resources that were mentioned on the show; and lots more on our Utah Insight page.

You can just head to pbsutah.org and hit the Utah Insight link that's up there, and it'll take you to the page where you can find those resources.

Coming up next on "Utah insight", we're talking about the Utah Inland Port, and we wanna hear from you, once again, What are your thoughts on the project?

You can chime in using the methods that you see on your screen.

We are always listening, even after the show airs, so continue to talk back to us and let us know what you think about these issues.

And until next time, I wanna thank you for joining us here on "Utah Insight."

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